Best sounding combination for Altec 416A

[mekr]

i shall certainly post the pictures when the project is complete

[voice of the theater]

Thanks for the information,a friend suggested to go for 360 litre Onken cabinet of 25mm birch ply with 511 horns and HF driver

I'm not familiar with the 360 liter Onken cabinet (but I'm sure there are people here on this board who are--who may chime in about that cabinet). One thing I can say as far as your potential choice of 511 horns--there is a possible advantage to using 511 horns in a system with 416's. Some Altec fans like using a 500hz crossover with 15 inch woofers so that the crossover point in your system is below most of the vocal/mid range. That way, you're not asking 15" woofers to cover frequencies up to 1200 or 800 hz, they're covering the sound below 500 hz and the bulk of the vocal/mid range is above the crossover point. You just have to be careful that many H.F. drivers can't be pushed too hard (with too much power) without damage at the 500 hz range--this may not be much of an issue for home listening volume levels but definitely a consideration when using a horn loaded system with a 500 hz crossover for P.A. use. Has your friend recommended a H.F. driver or a crossover or are you still looking for suggestions there as well?

[mekr]

Yes He recommended 802 Alinico from GPA ,I had about 8 months back bought Altec 604A but had to cancel the deal as i read the sound being used in recording studios and may be analytical as i did not know about the sound

[GM]

Thanks for the information,a friend suggested to go for 360 litre Onken cabinet..........

Again, fine for an original 416A, but big as it is, maybe ideally too small for a GPA re-cone and your only tuning option is to damp or completely block off one or more of its multiple vents. WRT to a high SQ app in general, some of mine and others thoughts here: onken Onken w or A7 or Valencia - diyAudio

GM

[GM]

You just have to be careful that many H.F. drivers can't be pushed too hard (with too much power) without damage at the 500 hz range--this may not be much of an issue for home listening volume levels...........

IME, for low distortion/high SQ 500 Hz XO apps requires either a large format series (2xx) or dual small format drivers (80x) otherwise the latter can sound a bit strident if not driven with a ~matching impedance tube amp.

For a 511 app then, I recommend pre-Tangerine phase plug 802 series drivers if single and you can get by with the 804/806 series if dual, with the better 802-8G, 902 or 909 series being for higher XO points due to their slightly upward shifted BW to cover the higher BW that the digital age offers.

Its main advantage over the 811 for higher XO points then is its greater directivity control over a wider BW, a plus in high aspect ratio rooms or apps where the listening distance forces the speakers into the corners to get decent stereo separation.

GM

[mekr]

Yes i was suggested 1200 HZ Xover

[voice of the theater]

Yes He recommended 802 Alinico from GPA ,I had about 8 months back bought Altec 604A but had to cancel the deal as i read the sound being used in recording studios and may be analytical as i did not know about the sound

Yes i was suggested 1200 HZ Xover

The 1200 hz crossover is what I originally recommended to you (the Model 19 crossover is a 1200 hz crossover). If you decide you want to go with a 1200 hz crossover as your friend suggested, then the 802-8G would be a great choice for a high frequency driver--it has a nice extended high frequency response. If you go with a Model 19 Crossover, and an 802-8G driver (and 416A woofer), you are going to have a similarity to the Model 19 design. The Model 19's use the 811B horn, whereas your friend recommended a 511B horn. There is a thread here that discusses using a 511B with a Model 19 type design and there are of course different opinions on this matter. Here's the thread link: http://www.hostboard.com/forums/alte...-19-511-a.html

Some ideas from that thread:

Basically. A bigger horn 'throws' the sound further and controls directivity to a lower F6 and why I prefer the 511 to the 811 and the 311 to the 511, etc.. The trade-off other than size is that when used with a point source driver (woofer, etc.) is that the XO point must decrease with increasing horn size for a given polar response which in turn increases its required delay. Fortunately, these are no longer the major issues they once were now that adjustable digital XO, delay systems are available.

Basic cab tuning is strictly a function net Vb, so all you need to do is increase its dims enough to account for the additional volume taken up by the larger horn/whatever.

Not having ever experimented with using a 511 with a ~1200 Hz XO, not sure how well the M19's XO will line up electrically with the horn's gain BW or if there's enough mids, HF tuning adjustment, but for sure the 511 will ideally need the same driver offset to line up acoustically for the XO's point(s) to work, making it extend in front of the woofer/cab by however much longer it is. IOW, mount it same as an 811 and you'll need a much lower XO point for best performance.

GM

A matter of taste, I suppose. For domestic listening I much prefer the 811. It seems lighter, cleaner, clearer to me.

But I seem to be alone in this opinion.

I noticed my 511b / 808 8b's seem to have a more opened sound than my 811s. (Valencias and 19's) But it was a larger room as well. Have you tried just setting the 511's on top of the 19 cabs and running them from there for a while? Before you do any major mods!

Personally, if it were my project, I would not use the 511B horns with the 1200 hz crossover/802-8G drivers. I would definitely use the 811B horn with that high of a crossover point. Keep in mind you may have to adjust the tuning of the 360 litre Onken cabinet as GM mentioned and you will also have to compensate for the 16 ohm impedance of your woofer if using it with a Model 19 crossover. If you want to go with a 511B horn I would use a lower crossover point (and not an 802-8G driver).....

[gvasale]

These have served me well for nearly 40 years: 2 416a, 511b, 808-8A. 500hz passive electronic biamp. IB enclosures.

altec | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

my 802d s are in the closet. roughly a 13cu.ft. box

[mekr]

These have served me well for nearly 40 years: 2 416a, 511b, 808-8A. 500hz passive electronic biamp. IB enclosures.

altec | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

my 802d s are in the closet. roughly a 13cu.ft. box

which horn is on your speakers

[gvasale]

511b